Proposal for a balanced game system

purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
  There's been so much talk in the game and on these forums about pvp,traders and piracy. Naver brings up many points about this in his "petition against the 24 hour rule" tread for this debate. This however doesn't solve many of the core problems that the current system has or fully balances the game.

  First we have to ask...Why do we need the rules changed? The main issue with the rule is that it is not a 24 hour protection but a permanent attack restriction as long as the white player doesn't log out (even past 24hours), this is NOT fair. The rule was put into place to prevent EXCESSIVE farming of players that caused a large population loss (white players). This rule that was meant to balance, ended up unbalancing the game so much to non pirates. Because of total immunity effect it caused another population loss to piracy (red/orange players), plus the unrestricted nanban trading for traders now contributed to an imbalance to the game economy. But most importantly, it removed the 'thrill of sailing into the unknown' now that there was little to no threat. So the goal is to find a middle ground before the game looses more people due to stagnation (many players get bored with no challenge games and find others to play). The current drop in Maris population (server is only 4months old) from it's start is proof of that. The only fair rule to balance the current rule is... If pirates can only attack a white once per log in then all players should only be allowed one nanban trade per log in. I don't think anyone wants that, but it would be fair.

  Each facet of the game has their own arguments to justify it's place but for a truly balanced system to work, we'll all have to make sacrifices.The Key is coming up with a system that is fair to all players in the game weather be trader/adv/pirate/BH. To come to a middle ground of rules we first need to look at the main issues from each perspective...
-whites:
1)excessive farming of anyone is not fun, and is not necessary. Some people just want to play the game and enjoy unbothered. Others don't mind being attacked by pirates but some don't know when to quit.
2)port camping is not fair: as pirate ship tend to be faster n the start than trader/adv ships.
3)unwanted turning blue: some people are forced to turning blue, taking disadvantages of that color. aka: being forced to being farmed.
-red/oranges:
1)traders can do unlimited nanban/trade runs without restriction and print unlimited monies.
2)need a more realistic system of attacking. If traders can do more than one nanban run per day then so should pirate attacks.
3)need more of a challenge and excitement in the game.
-blue:
1)not enough incentive/no current benefit to being blue/no rewards
2)blue can be farmed.
3)blue needs to be recognized more to being hired by white players for escort services.

  As people have mentioned, this is a 'hybrid' game that incorporates many different elements (adv/trd/mar). The game is surrealistically set to mirror real life and should show that. Fact is, the world is a dangerous place and as such, should be reflected in this game, a real threat. If sailors want to venture out into the world, then they should be prepared for what awaits them, especially if venturing into lawless waters (players should NOT want to go into those waters). Tributes and BH services should be more relied on than blue flags and the game should show that. Blue flags should only be needed for those players who (don't want to be involved or bothered at all with any kind of pvp) and just want to play on their own.

   The following rule changes can potentially balance the game from all perspectives. Primarily, increasing the role of the BH is a main factor to countering the pirate and farming issues in the game.

Bounty Hunter

   BH's and pirates are 2 sides of the same coin. Were as pirates are the balancing agent against traders, BH's are the balance against pirates. To bring more people into following this profession, a better awards system must be given and new rules must be applied.

-whites will no longer turn blue if they are attacked by a pirate or brought into a battle and win the battle. Whites will ONLY turn blue if they start an attack on a red/orange player and win the fight. The white attacking must be admiral to turn blue. Non admiral whites will not turn blue on winning a fight.
-where pirates get 'spoils' from tributes, BH's will receive 'bounties' from sinking pirates. Bounties are awarded based on notoriety of the pirate. 1-10 bounties would be earned per pirate sunk. Bounties and spoils can be traded in (bootlegger for pirate/secretary for BH) for useful items like Huseyin_Gazi suggested in Naver's thread in a union shop format. Included on the list would also be pirate/BH specific items.
-BH's would be additionally awarded Patriot Awards for killing pirates. 10-100 PA's would be awarded to the BH each time they sink a pirate (deposited in bank receive items tab). PA's would be awarded based on the pirate's total lvl's with extra bonus depending on the pirate ranking on the 'wanted' list in the GM guilds (to a max reward of 100PA's). A steady flow of PA's in the game will promote ship building by making OSP's more common and affordable. The more people there are making better ships, the more players that will potentially want to do maritime.
-As long as BH is not admiral, they gain green flag benefit from white admiral (see below about green flags).

Rule Changes

The removal of the '24h' permenant, no attack/logout rule: The rule would need to be removed and replaced by a newer fairer system. The rules will allow more realistic play and would promote more tribute use and cooperation with using BH services. They also reflect safe/hostel/lawless waters more realistically.

-In hostel waters: green flag time in increased to 1 hour for white players, 5min for blue players.
In lawless waters: 30min for white, NO flag for blue.
-caution skill (and high lookout skill) for orange/red players is reduced by 50% in safe waters.
-The top pirate/BH on the wanted/honored list's of the maritime guild earn extra 10% speed up bonus.
-hon/noto are NOT lost during ESF/BC/Ganador events they are involved in.
-whites gain 10% bonus on nanban trade and regular goods trade if blue player is fleeted (non admiral) in all non home ports.
-repeated "farming" attacks will be treated with a 'diminishing returns' system which would reset each time a players either logs out or ports x2 (explained below). This system would apply to ALL players white/red/orange/blue. Consecutive attacks on the same fleets would be treated as follows.

1st attack: all rewards (fame/noto/hon/money/goods etc.) would be as is now and based on plunder vs storage rank (+50% in lawless waters for orange/red players, this bonus only applies to the first attack)
2nd attack: all rewards are reduced to 30% value
3rd attack: all rewards are reduced to 10% value and white players gain a 1 hour NON tradable No War Pact added to their inventory.
4th and all following attacks: NO benefit.

   This would reset each time players either log out or goes to every second (different) port docked. The reset would only happen once per second port entered (no repeat reset in the same port). The second port entered reset rule would allow players to get to a destination and leave safely, but if they port again (in a different port) the count would start over. The would prevent pirates from marooning a player in the same port as they would have to let them pass or gain little to no benefit from waiting (port camping). Another benefit to this is the reduction to alt farming for noto/hon as it would take a lot more effort to accomplish.

   The system is simple and creates more of a real element into the game. A white can feel confident traveling into lawless waters with a handful of tributes (3 tribs maxes out attack count and gives whites immunity until reset) and can get special bonuses for bringing a BH with them on their trip. Reds can now farm and plunder to create a more realistic treat in the game and get better rewards. A blue will now have a place in the game, get paid and receive rewards for sinking pirats and escorting fleets. If you have any questions on the rule proposal or need clairification on anything please feel free to contribute your thoughts. Thank you all for your concerns on these forums, all of your input has allowed me to work out this system. :)
Destry
IGN: Samantha99

Comments

  • DanielFreedomHuntersDanielFreedomHunters Posts: 92Member Beginner
    This post is full of great suggestions.  I would be very good with this, the way Sam wrote it.  

    A few comments:
    Multiple Nanban runs:  If a cap is not put on the number of Nanban runs.  Then the blue flag should expire 2 hours after the first nanban trade in East Asia and, a new flag should not be activated until the previous 24 hr cycle expires.  
    • The amount of multiple alts in one fleet, that still exists, penalizes single toon players, if they are limited to 1 nanban trip a day.  Those single toon players are already fighting to level the income playing field with those players sailing 3 or 4 alt ship fleets. 
    The ideas to change the green flag rules would do a lot to balance the field and remove a lot of frustration.  
    • I would not be opposed to removing the blue flags all together, and replacing them with bundles of tributes.   
    • No one carries pvp tributes anymore.  It would help create another in game production revenue chain for players.
    She also talked about port sitting, which has always annoyed Whites but, I do not know how to fix that.
    • There needs to be more places a pirate could sit, if it cannot be stopped.  Like giving an all players incentives to go to Farm Islands, like additional farm storage that can only be accessed at the island.


    IGN: Daniel-San
    IG Nationality: Dutch
    Company: FreedomHunters
    Director
  • CulvernCulvern Posts: 646Member Intermediate
    Great post. Well thought through and full of interesting ideas.

    I started playing this game years back in netmarble. Started as a trader. I was poor, had hardly any idea how the game was really played.i only had a shipyard trade ship. I rarely worried about 'port camping' pirates and their acceleration since all I had to do was sail back and forth in the green zone until my ship picked up speed and I saw an opening to make a run for it. It worked 75% of the time. With a Shipyard ship! I actually really enjoyed trying to make a break for it and being chased. And that was during item plunder days.
    The excitement was fun.

    As a pirate now, the only excitement is the hunt and chase. The rewards are mostly nothing and one cannot sustain themselves with piracy.
    Everyone tributes. And tribute are almost completely worthless since the item can't be sold to anyone other than other pirates who already get their own.

    The only issue I see in the suggestions above is with the 1 hour green flag.
    A green flag protects someone from any attack, not just from the one pirate that already got him.
    I see this would get abused.
    A person would use their own alt to attack them and get this protection, then sail off to nanban. Whenever the flag wears off, just attack themselves again.
  • NaverUWONaverUWO Posts: 84Member Beginner
    -In hostel waters: green flag time in increased to 1 hour for white players, 5min for blue players. 

    Seems OK

    In lawless waters: 30min for white, NO flag for blue.

    Good

    -caution skill (and high lookout skill) for orange/red players is reduced by 50% in safe waters.

    Not required

    -The top pirate/BH on the wanted/honored list's of the maritime guild earn extra 10% speed up bonus.

    This will encourage exploitation even further.

    -hon/noto are NOT lost during ESF/BC/Ganador events they are involved in.

    Not necessary but OK.

    -whites gain 10% bonus on nanban trade and regular goods trade if blue player is fleeted (non admiral) in all non home ports.

    This will encourage another exploitation.

    -repeated "farming" attacks will be treated with a 'diminishing returns' system which would reset each time a players either logs out or ports x2 (explained below). This system would apply to ALLplayers white/red/orange/blue. Consecutive attacks on the same fleets would be treated as follows.

    1st attack: all rewards (fame/noto/hon/money/goods etc.) would be as is now and based on plunder vs storage rank (+50% in lawless waters for orange/red players, this bonus only applies to the first attack)
    2nd attack: all rewards are reduced to 30% value
    3rd attack: all rewards are reduced to 10% value and white players gain a 1 hour NON tradable No War Pact added to their inventory.
    4th and all following attacks: NO benefit.


    3rd Exploitation detected. This will allow traders to farm 1 hour blue flags by using an alt. It will directly effect to having more blue flags at sea. Also, this will reduce blue flag sales from UWC shop so highly doubt will ever be happen.

    The system is simple and creates more of a real element into the game. A white can feel confident traveling into lawless waters with a handful of tributes (3 tribs maxes out attack count and gives whites immunity until reset) and can get special bonuses for bringing a BH with them on their trip. Reds can now farm and plunder to create a more realistic treat in the game and get better rewards. A blue will now have a place in the game, get paid and receive rewards for sinking pirats and escorting fleets. If you have any questions on the rule proposal or need clairification on anything please feel free to contribute your thoughts. Thank you all for your concerns on these forums, all of your input has allowed me to work out this system. :)

    This proposal requires some serious coding to make it work because of those exploitation that I have mentioned. The thing is more we request, the less chance they will listen to us and move into action. Papaya Play and Koei is not a big company. We should understand them first before request for changes.

    Spookles
    "The more righteous your fight, the more opposition that you will face." - Donald J. Trump
    "Treat the word impossible as nothing more than motivation." - Donald J. Trump
    "The more people tell you it's not possible, that it can't be done, the more you should be absolutely determined to prove them wrong." - Donald J. Trump
  • lefox271lefox271 Posts: 495Member Intermediate
    Naver is right about asking for simple changes. Simple equals cheap. It has to make financial sense to papaya. The fact that the 24 hour rule is really a log-off reset flag suggests it was a quick and dirty mod in the first place, so I reckon even adding a timer will require new code - which means more cost to papaya.

    Besides, 'balance' is a relative concept. It depends on who you ask and what factors you think are important.

    Look at it from papaya's point of view. What is everyone doing at the moment? The answer is Nanban. Do you really think they will want to make it harder for those players? I reckon if traders petitioned for faster market price resets so they got more for their EA goods, papaya would be more likely to listen.

    None of these suggestions address the issue HelloAll pointed out on another thread; he said he was sick of chasing down blue flags. At the moment it looks like a bit section of the player population just wants to nanban in peace. You can't change that by modifying the rules.
  • lefox271lefox271 Posts: 495Member Intermediate
    Note I'm not saying the suggestions are good or bad. They are just unrealistic.
    Cravos
  • KatanauwoKatanauwo Posts: 309Member Intermediate
    Let the server randomly kick players between 10 to 20 minutes, and multi issue and white name farming ban issue will be resolved.

    Papaya just need to cut the server resource to achieve cost reduction, game balancing, also happy pirates and happy solos who do not know how to run more than two characters!
    gelsonluz
  • SpooklesSpookles Posts: 282Member Intermediate
    Removing alts from the game will do alot of good, like rewards can be given without the risk of them being farmed, yet the cons of removing alts are so large that it will probably be a finishing blow for UWO.
    Harsh but probably the truth.
  • SUNDOGG97SUNDOGG97 Posts: 135Member Trainee
    I think it is a bunch of whining, whining about choices, people have made. I suggest their are many ways to play, just change your style,you can do it daily on one toon too.

    No one is forcing any one to do any thing or play a certain way
  • gelsonluzgelsonluz Posts: 37Member Beginner
    No need to come up with fancy rules that:

    - Pirates will say traders will exploit or
    - Traders will say pirates will exploit

    I have to agree with Katanauwo. Let the server kick out players that are inactive for more than 10-20 min.
    Petition to end Wrong Chat
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  • FerrolioFerrolio Posts: 67Member Beginner
    Good post and suggestions so far. The issue is things have been so uneven to the trader's benefit for so long that people have got comfortable, cocky, and even feeling entitled in thinking that they can go about their business unmolested. Hostile and lawless waters have become relatively meaningless. That shouldn't be the case. 

    If people want to pay real cash for the flags, then that's fine. Just have them not work in Lawless waters, and stop handing them out like candy in game and from events. 

    Just want to also add that I don't think white names gaining a bonus on trading while being fleeting with blues is ideal. Leads to too many potential exploits and grief for those who can't/don't want to feel like they have to fleet with others. A minor speed boost of 1% is more acceptable.

    I also don't think pirates should be searchable at sea except by BH's and vice versa. That would bring back some excitement and another reason to be fleeting with blue names if you are white, and want some peace of mind.  

    Also there shouldn't be any green name protection around any of the pirate ports. 

    And another, perhaps unpopular suggestion is...*drumroll*.....Completed shipwreck maps or raised ships should be plunderable by pirates. And this is coming from an avid salvager!
  • benjo062160benjo062160 Posts: 1Member
    Papaya already made server unbalance, they given favor to the few pirate instead majority non pirate
    .Actually, most vet play do not trust papaya because of our lose on gama.  Nanban is not unlimited here i do nanban for more than 4yrs. in gama. Piracy is stealing and bullying not pvp which the server gave the favor for reasons we already why. The first thing that papaya should do is earn trust. Most ppl in my FL are not playing now they play at the start now they not playing     
    Culvern
  • purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
       Thank you all for your responses. I take all constructive criticism objectively since i genuinely want to see this game flourish and hope to come to a middle ground on this topic. I will respond to each person that contributed something to the topic individually and welcome your feedback. I didn't check the thread until today since I posted it but found I made a mistake on one of the rules. To clarify the rule:

    -whites that have a blue escort in fleet ONLY get the 10% to trade bonus (goods/nanban) in non home ports in HOSTEL AND LAWLESS waters (so that means no bonus in country colony port). You don't need protection of a BH in safe waters!

       Now before we continue, i want to lay to rest 2 myths that people seem concerned about.

    1)Koei is a small company and doesn't have the manpower to effect change to the code.

       Well this is obviously the biggest issue that people are uninformed about, but let's examine the facts. Koei was created in 1978 as a computer sales and software company. In 1988 they established a North American Subsidiary, 2001 Canada, 2003 UK as well as many Asian countries and even Lithuania. In 2010 they took over Tecmo. Now they make various software's (games/business programs etc.), video slot machines and computers, have projects in various anime flick, plus a lot more. They employ over 1.6k people. The company is worth over 16 billion US. They have had record profits for the past 5 years now, last year alone they made 141m in US funds and have numerous real-estate holdings around the world.
       Their mission statement for their games is "Provide the most emotionally-moving experiences to customers though the creation of superior content". This is NO small company people! They have more than enough resources to 'code' anything they want in this game. There's been constant major changes to this game over the years and all from major code and rule changes. When this game first came out it didn't even have a Pacific Ocean lol. And they DO listen to customers and make change which is why they whole non attack rule was added in the first place. Now sure it may have just been a "sloppy quick fix" to the problem at the time, but they couldn't have know what the follow up effect it would have on the game. And i'm sure no body at the time 'stepped up' to suggest a balance system. How could they know? Please stop making excuses for them!
       Now when it comes to Papaya, my feeling are that Koei learned a lot from it's dealing with OGP and wouldn't entrust their only North American franchise to just anyone. Papaya is NOT a small venture either folks.

    References:
    https://www.koeitecmo.co.jp/e/
    https://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview/3635.T
    https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/profile?s=3635:TYO
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koei

    2)Papaya/Koei rely on the sales of Blue flags

      
    Wow, this one really surprises me, doesn't anyone do math? lol Let's take a look at the TRUE blue flag value here. $100 US buys 8000 uwc/ 10 24hr No War Pacts cost you 1200 uwc, that translates to $15 US or $1.50 per flag. How many people actually use/buy them? I'm not sure what the exact amount of users this server has but let's assume 500 (hypothetical) people are online regularly here. Of those how many actually use blue flags? I'd say not many since i see more people sailing around without them when looking at overall numbers. And maybe 100 people online regularly that use them, but not everyone actually buys uwc. A lot of players sell in game, 1 person can supply 10 people with blue flags. So for $15, 10 fleets can sail safely around the waters for 1 day. Problem with this is that means less people are actually spending uwc on items when they can get them in game with ducetts.
       But even at 100 people paying $1.50/day for a month still only works out to only $4500. Do you guys really believe that a company that's worth over 16 billion is relying on $4500/month to survive? It's not blue flags that this company relies on. They make their monies on other stuff from the shop that higher percentages of people are using more regularly like storage, ssip's, npc's, tools etc. and of course captain's tickets. Blue flags are part of their overall revenue, but i would say it's a very small percentage of total value to them. Next time you see a blue flag sailing around, you can think "That's $1.50!" lol.

       I hope we can put those 2 issues to rest. If you think I'm wrong on either of them, you can check my references I provided and see for yourselves. Other than that provide evidence to the contrary. :)
    Culvern
    IGN: Samantha99
  • lefox271lefox271 Posts: 495Member Intermediate
    PurplePirate

    I'm not sure Koei's position is relevant. Papaya is their customer not us. Any changes have to make financial sense to Papaya. Koei won't produce new code for free - that's not how business works!

    But I think you are right about blue flags. Which is precisely the point. There really is no point making rule changes when players can get round them with blue flags.
  • NaverUWONaverUWO Posts: 84Member Beginner

    The company is worth over 16 billion US. They have had record profits for the past 5 years now, last year alone they made 141m in US funds and have numerous real-estate holdings around the world.

    Netmarble company is also worth more than 14B dollar. 
    Why didn't they invest into UWO? Why just sold away and stick with Korean server now? Because it's not profitable here anymore for their agenda.

    Papaya is NOT a small venture either folks.

    IT IS a small company. Papaya is a part of Vertigo Games.
    These are some of their company financial status. (Translated with google)
    1 dollar equal to approx 816.88 won.

    image
    image
    image
    image

    Wow, this one really surprises me, doesn't anyone do math? lol Let's take a look at the TRUE blue flag value here. $100 US buys 8000 uwc/ 10 24hr No War Pacts cost you 1200 uwc, that translates to $15 US or $1.50 per flag. How many people actually use/buy them?

    The business is not simple as you think.
    Yes, they do have money but it doesn't mean they are willing to invest for a game that earns barely enough to cover the cost of server fee especially if we ask too much. In this case, we have to go step by step and improve one by one instead of forcing them to do all the work task at once. As I said, the more ask, the less chance we get for any improvements.

    Also you have to understand the relationship between publisher and developer company. I am not sure what kind of contract they have but normally publisher pays the cost of coding/development fee for their games.
    "The more righteous your fight, the more opposition that you will face." - Donald J. Trump
    "Treat the word impossible as nothing more than motivation." - Donald J. Trump
    "The more people tell you it's not possible, that it can't be done, the more you should be absolutely determined to prove them wrong." - Donald J. Trump
  • crazyhunter2003crazyhunter2003 Posts: 761Member Intermediate
    Katanauwo "Let the server randomly kick players between 10 to 20 minutes, and multi issue and white name farming ban issue will be resolved"

    gelsonluz  "I have to agree with Katanauwo. Let the server kick out players that are inactive for more than 10-20 min."

    1st off ,Katanauwo didn't say "inactive"

    2nd off ever done any shipbuilding? SBers will sit outside ports,inactive fir 20-30 minutes or more (however long it takes for the build)

    what he says is any one of us should get booted from game randomly.how that will resolve any issue is beyond me.
    Ingean
    IGN:JackO'Neil
  • gelsonluzgelsonluz Posts: 37Member Beginner
    @Crazyhunter2003

    You don't NEED to be sitting outside port inactive during shipbuilding.

    - Did you know you can get your ship in any shipyard in the world?
    - You can do stuff like talking to people, advertise/sell or sail/play the game, just to name a few.

    Therefore you don't NEED to be inactive. Being inactive is your CHOICE.

    Kicking out inactive players is common in online games to prevent server overload and player abuse. So basic but still, we don't have it here yet.

    Kicking out inactive players seems to be the simplest of all ideas discussed so far. No need to change anything else at all...

    ... and the trader can be attacked again, right? (If he is logged out it is his own fault).
    CulvernIngean
    Petition to end Wrong Chat
    UWO Headquarters (Fan Site)
    uwo-hq.blogspot.com
  • crazyhunter2003crazyhunter2003 Posts: 761Member Intermediate
    server overload?

    only time i have ever seen that is when some moron does a DDoS

    I doubt there are nearly enough players on uwo to overload it under normal circumstances
    IGN:JackO'Neil
  • HelloAllHelloAll Posts: 701Member Intermediate
    in that case no one can use a bazaar other than aide bazaar. No more grinding fishing or collecting.

    The funny think is most of the multi users aren’t inactive anyway, they are sailing and trading.

    Just not a well thought out idea imo.
  • gelsonluzgelsonluz Posts: 37Member Beginner
    I think you guys are confusing "common practice" with "best practice".

    Slavery was common practice in the past. Multi boxing is common practice in UWO today (And still legal unlike slavery).

    It doesn't mean those are best practices. In fact, multi boxing is illegal in most onlines but UWO (That I know of). I'm sure there are some people out there that will blame multi boxing for our economy ... and give sugestions of how to make multiboxing unnecessary.

    Yes, inactive fishers, collecters and players bazzars are kicked out for inactivity in most games.

    Why? Because they may lead to server overload and player abuse.

    - We don't have overloaded servers NOW, but isn't it "best practice" to adopt it in case our world gets a bit more populated?

    - Isn't this 24h / 'till player logoff protection a kind of player abuse traders are using as we speak (and the whole point of thread)? And there is botting... that we don't have it yet.

    I'm sorry if the idea breaks the gameplay you guys got used to but, in my opinion, it should have never existed in the first place.
    Petition to end Wrong Chat
    UWO Headquarters (Fan Site)
    uwo-hq.blogspot.com
  • rangerzfanrangerzfan Posts: 90Member Beginner
    Any changes made now are only going to effect the small population left. They will not attract enough new players to make a difference. Mess with blue flags too much and you risk losing more players or atleast making some go even less active. Are changes needed, sure they are but they should have been implemented before December. A big swath of players have gone afk or left since beginning of December and most are not showing signs of returning. It is not a winter thing. These players are likely lost for good. Popping in for a day or two every 45-60 days is not an active player. Petition for all the changes you think you can get, but be prepared that nothing will change or if it does the population will continue to dwindle and go more inactive. Even die hard players have limits. 
  • purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
    @DanielFreedomHunters

    Hi Danny, thanks for the input :)
    a couple of things...

    If a cap is not put on the number of
    Nanban runs.  Then the blue flag should expire 2 hours after the first
    nanban trade in East Asia and, a new flag should not be activated until
    the previous 24 hr cycle expires.
     
    That would be nice but it can't work like that. The whole point of the blue flag is that you get FULL protection for the time given.
    The game has to and should have the option for blue flags. Really what i hope to accomplish in this system is that we can give 'alternatives' to blue flag use. There's so many different ways in the game for a player to avoid and/or get away from pirates but to many don't take advantage of them and just go the easiest route with blue flag.

    The amount of multiple alts in one
    fleet, that still exists, penalizes single toon players, if they are
    limited to 1 nanban trip a day.  Those single toon players are already
    fighting to level the income playing field with those players sailing 3
    or 4 alt ship fleets.

    Multiboxing has always been a problem in the game. Papaya seems to be doing something about it but is it enough for a creative person to find a loophole somewhere? This heavy imbalance though is also do to the HEAVY influx of 'pay to win players in these early months of the server. It's pretty obvious the people whom have bought uwc to those that don't, but it's like that in every game out there that offers that option in a game.

    She also talked about port sitting, which has always annoyed Whites but, I do not know how to fix that.

    I don't know if you can actually 'fix' something like that, but my system does address it and at least and nullifies it's effect once you hit 3 attacks (since you can't reset at same port). Also as culvern mentions, you can get a bit of starter speed by sticking close to port to build up speed before you make a run for it.

    IGN: Samantha99
  • purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
    @Culvern thx culvern i appreciate the feed back :)

    As a pirate now, the only excitement is the hunt and chase. The rewards
    are mostly nothing and one cannot sustain themselves with piracy.
    Everyone
    tributes. And tribute are almost completely worthless since the item
    can't be sold to anyone other than other pirates who already get their
    own.

    Creating more excitement by adding an element of real danger is one of my goals here especially with the fix on the BH profession (the danger would be felt by you pirates as well!). As for rewards, there would finally be at least something of value for all the tribs by fixing the trade in npc with better items similar at least to gazi's list. And both the pirate and BH could look forward to dealing with the unique shop geared for them.

    The only issue I see in the suggestions above is with the 1 hour green flag.
    A green flag protects someone from any attack, not just from the one pirate that already got him. I see this would get abused. A
    person would use their own alt to attack them and get this protection,
    then sail off to nanban. Whenever the flag wears off, just attack
    themselves again.

    well... true but that loophole already exists in the game. There's nothing stopping a player from towing an alt now, disband when pirate gets close and just attack himself to get immediate green flag. This action though might end up having an effect in the game where pirates 'co-operate' with each other. where one group attacks the alt to neutralize while the other focuses on the main fleet. If a player is using multiple alts they can be at a disadvantage having to manage more than one screen at a time. This new set of rules sorta promote that with the 1 hour rule. If a pirate encounters that scenario then they have 1 hour to coordinate with other pirates for the next opportunity to attack. But i'm glad you pointed that out thx :)
    Culvern
    IGN: Samantha99
  • purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
    @NaverUWO Thanks for the input Naver, i appreciate your points. :)

    -caution skill (and high lookout skill) for orange/red players is reduced by 50% in safe waters.
    Not required

    Actually, this is required. This rule reflects reality, where whites should be fearful of going into pirate controlled lawless waters and get disadvantages, pirates should be weary of safe waters and should be at a disadvantage. In history, real life pirates would avoid mainland Europe for fear of being recognized. Locals would even act as 'spotters' by reporting to the authorities when a enemy and/or wanted ship would be sailing in local waters. Plus local waters tended to be much more patrolled by royal vessels, so yes any wanted criminal would be at a great disadvantage and fearful of being caught. Don't forget this is all about 'balance' so pirates should have some sort of negative effect in safe waters.

    -The top pirate/BH on the wanted/honored list's of the maritime guild earn extra 10% speed up bonus.
    This will encourage exploitation even further.

    I don't see how, it only affects 2 characters in the game and the top spots will constantly be changing control by competing players. This gives both blue and red/orange players a sense of 'competitiveness' with each other for that top coveted spot.

    -whites gain 10% bonus on nanban trade and regular goods trade if blue player is fleeted (non admiral) in all non home ports.
    This will encourage another exploitation.

    I made a error in my typing in the original post and since there's no edit option i clarified the rule in my first post. If it's the 10% bonus you have an issue with, it's not an exploitation it's an incentive to co-operation and it's no different than anyone using trade EX robe or those players that get to 'exploit' effect from being on friends list of Holy Roman Emperor. Traders need an incentive and this is only a small bonus so it's not OP.

    3rd attack: all rewards are reduced to 10% value and white players gain a 1 hour NON tradable No War Pact added to their inventory.
    3rd
    Exploitation detected. This will allow traders to farm 1 hour blue
    flags by using an alt. It will directly effect to having more blue flags
    at sea. Also, this will reduce blue flag sales from UWC shop so highly
    doubt will ever be happen.


    I have absolutely no issues with removing the blue flag from this rule. I only originally put it in as a final deterrent to constant attack from the same pirate.

    This
    proposal requires some serious coding to make it work because of those
    exploitation that I have mentioned. The thing is more we request, the
    less chance they will listen to us and move into action. Papaya Play and
    Koei is not a big company. We should understand them first before
    request for changes.

    I stated my opinion about the coding issue in my first post. And yes they will listen IF we approach them with a solid well thought out balanced idea that would improve the environment of the game. The key is 'balance'. What better R&D could a company have than the players themselves. I find it strange you say that "we should understand them first before request for changes" when your petition (which spawned this thread in the first place) doesn't address the majority of issues I've address in this set of rules. Also you make claims in yours that you can't back up and prove where I have clearly stated that my rule ideas can 'potentially' balance the game, i don't claim anything for fact. We can't go back to the original system, it's been proven already that it doesn't work, it's not balanced. We can however use our experience to come up with a middle ground for all players in this game to make it exciting and balanced for all.

    IGN: Samantha99
  • purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
    @lefox271 thx fox you have some interesting points...

    Naver is right about asking for simple changes. Simple equals cheap. It
    has to make financial sense to papaya. The fact that the 24 hour rule is
    really a log-off reset flag suggests it was a quick and dirty mod in
    the first place, so I reckon even adding a timer will require new code -
    which means more cost to papaya.

    This is a Koei game and they make all the decisions for content. Simple is cheap yes but will a simple fix deal with all the issues in the game? The '24 hour' rule does sound like it was a simple answer to the problem at the time, but it's been shown to have flaws in it that couldn't be predicted at the time of inception.

    Besides, 'balance' is a relative concept. It depends on who you ask and what factors you think are important.

    very true, which is why i took the top 3 most discussed points from each color of player's views in my original post. I feel I've at least addressed each issue with the proposal. Koei would address a rule change if they felt it would improve their overall environment on all their servers. And who's to say that players don't have the best ideas? You and I are no different than the people Koei has working in their R&D department, who's to say that we can't discover something that the missed.

    None of these suggestions address the issue HelloAll pointed out on
    another thread; he said he was sick of chasing down blue flags. At the
    moment it looks like a bit section of the player population just wants
    to nanban in peace. You can't change that by modifying the rules.

    The rules offer alternatives to using blue flags with the fix on the BH profession trib use. True that the game is heavy with more traders right now, but Naver is right that a rules change could spark a heavier interest in maritime. This rule set is just an idea of how a potentially balanced system could work and spark more interest in doing either piracy or bounty hunting which would be a good start.



    IGN: Samantha99
  • purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
       Well, thanks for all the input guys, but truth be told the biggest problem we have on our server that everyone can agree on is a low population. Because of this Koei is not going to do any substantial changes to rules unless it could be a "universal" idea that would work on all of their servers. Weather it's a 'petition' or 'proposal' nothing is likely to change unless we have if not a unanimous vote, at least a majority for one. And if there is going to be any changes, then they have to be fair for all. Maybe instead of focusing on what changes should be made for the game, we should all be trying to promote more people to play. Even if it means bringing people and/or advertising ourselves. We should also work on keeping what people we have left here by helping each other instead of discouraging play. Only time will tell what fate our game will have.
    IGN: Samantha99
  • CulvernCulvern Posts: 646Member Intermediate
    I wonder if a merger with one of the asian servers would be possible?
  • purplepiratepurplepirate Posts: 941Member Intermediate
    @Culvern i'd love to be able to cross servers. Although they would have to have a built in language translator for foreign log ins.
    IGN: Samantha99
  • CulvernCulvern Posts: 646Member Intermediate
    I thought all the world spoke American with only a few remote places speaking Foreign... :)
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