Opinion Thread

[HGM]Cheerful[HGM]Cheerful Posts: 352WR Game Master Intermediate
Hello, Soldiers!

We know some of you have been asking for different changes in Battle Group, but since we were having our Battle Group Balance we couldn't make them come true. Now, we're asking for you all to provide feedback about the maps you'd like to see modified and in which way you'd do so. For example, replacing the helicopter in base 3 in Cantumira (and provide the name of the helicopter you'd add / what you'd do).

Therefore, now it's time for you all to talk. We want to hear everyone's opinion. Also, remember that you can also suggest adding a ladder or a rock here and there, removing a base or a vehicle, replacing X with Y, etc.

We will obviously aim to make the changes we deem necessary and useful, but you should always take into account the feasibility and DE's resources (it might be harder to do big changes, at least in the short run).

On the other hand, we also want to ask you all about the MK1S rocket-launcher. According to some users, it is not very useful at all since it cannot be recharged at ammo stations and, moreover, it is inferior to guns such as HK69 or EX Launcher. What are your thoughts on this? Would you buff this gun? The buff wouldn't be to make this gun OP (like the MK1S DE used to be), but just something better and more reliable). Voice your opinions!

Note: If you like someone's suggestion, please give a like to his post so that we know you support that. In the same way, give a dislike if you strongly disagree with it.



  • KalevWRRKalevWRR Posts: 6Member Beginner
    I would persoinally increase a little bit of splash damage for it and make it one hit kill if directly hit the opponent (not sure if it is right now.)  It should just recharge its ammo at ammo station, and aswell if there are only 3 heavy ammo boxes, make it recharge its ammo from heavy trooper ammo packages aswell?  That's what weapons are supposed to do there, obviously. Just my opinion, no hate. :)
  • KillingtimeKillingtime Posts: 236Member Trainee
    @KalevWRR Its 1 shot kill if you hit enemy already.

    And about what to do with MK1S, imo we need to look at all the 3 launchers:

    -6 grenades, cant refill from ammo station.
    -1 hit kill by direct hit, 2 hit kill from 1.5meters, after that 3 hit kill or more, 5m nothing
    -Also grenade travel speed seems a bit slow, more slower than before for sure.

    Things to do to balance it=Buff its range so it does 35 damage from 1.6m-5m range, so you have the best 3 hit kill range out of all the launchers. Because it can sometimes get hit marker even from 5m but do 0.1 damage so thats very confusing. Also reduce the weight from 45 to 40, since the other launcher have just 35 weight.
    (oh and fix its visual accuracy and speed stat, it says 100% acc and 90% speed but thats just a load of bs)

    -6 grenades, cant refill from ammo station.
    -1 hit kill by direct hit, 2 hit kill from 4m or so, 1.5 bars from 5m, so best range
    -About as fast as MK1S if u have fast reload

    Things to do to balance it=Reduce 2 hit kill radius to 3m, its way too easy now.

    -3 Grenades, 3 magazines, can be refilled at ammo station.
    -Not 1 hit kill to body, 2 hit kill from 2.5-3m, 4m 2 bar, 5m nothing
    -About as fast as MK1S too and almost instant reload with Fast Reload

    Things to do to balance it=Make it so you cant reload at ammo stations, because its way too easy to spam it atm.
    You can just spam all the 12 grenades and go to reload and keep spammin from safe distance.

    Also nerf its range, because you have twice the amount of grenades, it should have smaller range than MK1S, maybe 2 hit kill from only 1 meter (unless you get 1 direct hit) and 3 hit kill from 2m and 4-5 hit kill from 3-4m.

    With these changes, the launchers should have not only good balance within that category but also in general.
  • KillingtimeKillingtime Posts: 236Member Trainee
    Here is my second reply to this thread, regarding mostly BG sniper balance but also some CQC related sniper stuff.

    So I was discussing about Sniper balance with HGM Prisma and here the things that we talked about:

    Also another even better example of why the balance is a bit silly atm:

    And when we balance weapons, we have to look at all aspects of the weapon, now AIAW and M40A1 both have 100% accuracy and almost identical reactamount (how fast the weapon gains its max accuracy) etc. they are very similar except that M40A1 is just better for long range with 3x scope, so in this case like mentioned in the picture, M40A1 should have some weaknesses compared to AIAW so that its not just simply better, so that's why having more bullet drop would make sense, also so that its not too easy from distance with the 3x scope.

    And here is a reply from Prisma:

    And here is some chat about Reactamount and why I think its one of the more important stats for sniper weapons:

    So yeah reactamount is important. And also DSR1 (not the TC version) could use a buff for the reactamount (thinking something between 2.0 (aw50f small delay) and 1.5 (m24 etc. Instant) and the fix to its damage from 90 to 100. As for the accuracy, 85 might be great in general but maybe even 90 would be okay, I'll get to more about accuracy for sniper in the next part of this post. (PSG/WA2000 aka CQC snipers)

    So here is talk about mostly CQC snipers PSG/WA2000, but its also a bit BG related too:

    So yeah having PSG accuracy reduced to 90, BUT improving the reactamount should make the sniper much more reliable for cqc and also be in a better spot for the sniper balance in general, also WA2000 has 90% acc and same reactamount as PSG now, also since WA2000 has 6 bullets/magazine, it should have some disadvantage over PSG and I think a good one would be either keeping the worse reactamount of 2.0 or improving the reactamount but lowering the accuracy slightly, this way it would be more reliable for cqc battles but would lose in the longer distance cqc battles. (So I recommend the latter one, -5% acc and improved reactamount)

    As for the improved reactamount for PSG/WA2000, I'm thinking 1.5 (same as M24, instant).

    There is also Mosin Nagant thats reactamount is a fairly bad one of 3.0 with 85% acc, its kinda of cqc/BG hybrid sniper thx to its unique 1x zoom scope and being able to shoot trough glass, I'd like to see its reactamount reduced to at least 2.0 (improvement) and maybe even buff the accuracy to 90 so it would be similar to what AW50f is now but without the second scope, also maybe it should slightly less bullet drop (say, 5-10%) than what AW50F has (parabola 75).

    Also AW50F still feels really easy for taking out people from vehicles, but maybe this is fine, I think one way to nerf it further, would be to have some vehicles glasses impenetrable by AW50F and maybe only allow something like NTW_20, or Barrett_M82 to penetrate vehicles such as the Chinook "escape helicopter".

    And if these buffs would feel too strong, then reducing the accuracy further (I think even 80% would be fine) could be an option for PSG/WA2000.

    So TLDR list of the suggestions for the snipers would be:
    -More bullet drop for snipers, around 100 parabola (like what M24 has) is a good starting point, AIAW, M40A1, SSG etc. should have around 100, say AIAW 100 and SSG/M40A1 120.
    -PSG/WA2000 maybe around 100 as well, AW50F has 75, Mosin has only 20 but a good amount could be 60.
    -And other snipers too that are not mentioned here should mostly have also around 100, there are currently snipers that have a parabola of 1 which is basically no bullet drop at all.
    -There are some exceptions for not having to have to have around 100 parabola, such as M82 barrett and NTW20, maybe something like 10-50 could be fine as they already have bunch of other weaknesses.

    -PSG and WA2000 reactamount buff from 2.0 to 1.5
    -PSG acc nerf from 95 to 90 and WA2000 acc nerf from 90 to 85.
    -DSR1 (regular, not the gunsmith version) reactamount buff from 3.0 to something between 1.5-2.0 and damage from 98>100
    -Mosin Nagant reactamount from 3.0 to 2.0, accuracy from 85>90 and parabola from 20>60.

    Also I talked alot about the bullet drop and M24's parabola of 100 being a really good starting point.

    So here is a little clip demonstrating M24 bullet drop (Parabola=100) from a pretty extreme distance of 400 meters:

    Also if anything such as reasons why do X thing is unclear, let me know and I will give you an explanation.

    Thanks for reading my post and please leave thumbs up if you liked my ideas. Or if u didn't, please give me some constructive criticism.

  • SirJuxSirJux Posts: 61Member Beginner
    First of all what I would want for ALL snipers ( with exception of barret, NTW and mosin ) is to remove 1 shot to body kill possibility. Having this in the game even ruins BR a bit, as you have to have atleast level 4 armor to tank that shot. With current really slow reload of NTW, forced prone stance and slow react recovery+ odd crosshair of mosin they would still stay kinda balanced.
    Removing that would kinda remove the need to balance out sniper damage also… as if you can kill with 2 shots, then its no real issue if the damage is 85 or 95%( and there is always option to headshot with 1 shot - requires skill 

    Second thing I would want to see is to have sniper bullet travel speed reduced to 10000( m24 speed ). This would make sniping moving targets harder and more challenging. Everything would stay the same against classic campers who just stay still on hilltops.

    thirdly it would be nice to see a lot heavier penalty for snipers accuracy when they stand up and a bit less when they kneel ( this would nerf broken bug lean without having to fix camera locations on all three stances ( cos it seems that you just dont want to fix it - lets try another way then )

    and as 4th, remove any area damage for snipers… its a surgical weapon not some rocket blaster. When I did DSR_TC achievement, then shooting from above and landing bullet on enemy head, made it into 1 shot body kill, as it counted it as area damage kill :D
  • KillingtimeKillingtime Posts: 236Member Trainee
    Alright instead of making the video that I was talking about, I'm just gonna make another post here and save the video for later. So here is my reply about BG balance, along with some feedback from discord as well:

    Starting with some comments from the discord BG channel:

    And here is when I asked about the top-3 most important issues in BG:

    And my own Top-3 would be: Pay2Win, Map/Vehicle balance, A lot of things to abuse (spawntrap etc)

    So to summarise this:
    1. PAY2WIN, new players are in for horrible time with just 3rd slot, even with having 5th slot and being able to take out vehicles more effectively, you are still at a big disadvantage against the 8th slot M249 meta. Also personal opinion is that you are moving way too slow without Sp Ups in the huge maps of BG.

    Solution/Suggestion: 5th slot and Sp Ups purchaseable with dinars.
    Secondary solution: Have Stinger as a "default weapon" in 5th slot.

    2. Spawn Killing, this is a problem with multiple factors such as poorly designed bases/maps, unbalanced vehicles, pay2win etc. I will get to those topics later in the thread, though I do have a suggestion to help this problem:

    Part of the solution/Suggestion: Have enemy vehicles non stealable if they haven't been entered by the owner team, the vehicles would basically be locked until entered at least once.

    This would help against the abuse too when people start the match with 2 members of the same clan and steal helis and change back to the other team after other players have joined, then just proceed to spawncamp, this is just disgusting abuse that should be stopped finally.

    3. Vehicles such as Apache (mentioned multiple times for Highlands and Dogfight) and KA-50 HOKUM (Cantumira Base 3 heli), some of the problems are map specific that I will discuss later, but now I will talk about the balance of these vehicles:

    -Apache, Apache doesn't have lock-on in Korean WR at all other than in Crater Dogfight, this makes it much more balanced in Pargona Dogfight as it cant dominate other helis with the lock on anymore and also in Highlands since you can fight Apache much better with Hindi too.

    Solution/Suggestion: Remove Lock on for other maps than Crater Dogfight.

    -KA-50 HOKUM (Cantumira base 3 heli), this heli is really good counter against MD500 and personally I like it as it gives more options against MD500, but its also very effective against everything else, this is imo where it goes wrong, if it did less damage to infantry and tanks, it would be much more balanced. So maybe the non AA rockets should be nerfed by reducing the damage done or the amount of rockets. It actually already does less damage to infantry in Korean WR, its 3 shot kill from 2 meters compared to 2 shot kill in Papaya WR. Also it takes 5 stingers to kill it, just like Hindi, this would imo be totally fine if you couldn't repair it so fast, I'll talk more about repairing later though.

    Solution/Suggestion: Reduce the (Non AA) Rockets damage so that its less effective against Infantry/Ground vehicles but still retains its anti Air capabilities.

    3.5 More related to vehicles:
    -Tanks do very little damage to Helis/Planes, but in games like Battlefield you can one shot helis/planes with tanks, imo this makes much more sense, so maybe some strong tanks should do more damage against Helis/Planes, currently K1A1/the green tank does only 40% to MD500 and less to bigger helis/planes, thats a joke, imo it should be 1 shot to MD500 and 2 shots to bigger helis and maybe 1 shot to planes as they are harder to hit. Also other rocket like RPG should do more to Helis/Planes as well, as its also harder to hit with those kind of rockets.

    Solution/Suggestion: Heavily increase Tanks rockets damage against Helis/Planes, more specific info above^
    And increase Rockets such as RPG damage to Helis/Planes as well.

    -Repairing, currently repairing is pretty op as you can exit and enter vehicle very fast between repairs, also there is no proper balance about what u can repair and how much, so you can do stuff like keep repairing Hamina/Chinook and be pretty much invinsible.
    Also fast charging makes repairing at Repair/Refill stations even more OP, this item should be A.I only.

    Solutions/Suggestions: Adjust repair percentages for each vehicle individually, example. only 2% for Hamina and 15% for smaller vehicles like Motorcycle. And make Fast Charge A.I only.

    4.0 Regarding unbalance:
    -Bleeding tickets, a system like they have in Battlefield where you bleed tickets if you have less bases/flags would be nice. Say you have no bases and enemy team has all and they are just spawn trapping you 10v3, the game would end more quickly, but if the teams have even or near even amount of flags, then the tickets wouldn't bleed and the game would last longer, this would promote balanced games and punish unbalanced stack games. But wait there is more!

    -System from Japan/Korean WR where if your team has less players, you gain more exp/dinar, like 5% per player difference, say the game ends when you are playing 8v10, you would get 10% more exp & dinar because of 2 player difference, but if you are playing 1v10, you would get 45% more exp/dinar because of 9 player difference, this would help when you want to rage quit an unbalanced stack game.

    Solutions/Suggestions: Bleeding tickets, similar to conquest but not as drastic, read more above^
    Balance system from Japan/Korean WR, 5 or 10% more exp & dinar per player difference, read more above^

    Now I will continue on with the map change suggestion in the next post below.
  • KillingtimeKillingtime Posts: 236Member Trainee
    test post because forum is glitching
  • KillingtimeKillingtime Posts: 236Member Trainee
    I ffffffffffffffff..........hate these forums, for some reason I couldn't post normally here after my previous post, so I had to make this video where I scroll trough the post, USE THE TIMESTAMPS ON THE VIDEO when checking it out:

    Now I know its not as easy to read as in the forums but I made a lot of effort and tried way too many times to post it here so please read it properly, especially if you are an HGM reading this...

  • SirJuxSirJux Posts: 61Member Beginner
    if tanks damage vs aircrafts is increased, then only the rocket damage... not the bullets.
  • veetoccveetocc Posts: 2Member Beginner
    Apache is OP because you need 3 stinger missiles to destroy it. Reducing its armor would be nice.
    Let's talk about crater:
    - Rafale must spawn in derbaran base (derb base should be bigger of course)
    - put ammo and medic stations in base 4 and/or base 7
    - at least one oerlikon in derbaran base

  • KillingtimeKillingtime Posts: 236Member Trainee
    Zakhar change/Apache opinion/thoughts/suggestions.

    They did a good job with Zakhar, its much much much more balanced map now without Apache, with BH60 Minigun instead, it takes teamwork to use that heli effectively.

    Apache in that small map especially with edges around the map was just too easy, I'm pretty medicre pilot imo, but even I feel like there is a really small chance that someone will take me out of Apache and usually end up getting at least 8 kills with the 16 rockets that it has, thats just way too easy.

    Now sure there are some people who enjoy using this overpowered heli without any remorse, but the amount of people suffering from it compared to the amount of people enjoying it is way way higher, imo its things like this (unbalanced/abuseable/not easily counterable things) why people turn away from BG.

    As for the Apache balance, I think a combination of few nerfs (maybe its rocket dmg range and health), removing the lock-on ability from other maps than Crater DF and a buffing of the tank rocket damage against Helis should make it balanced for sure. Like currently it kills with 1 rocket if u hit withing 2-3 meters from ur target, thats just too easy, that range should be 0.5-1 meters or even a direct hit only.

    Now back to Zakhar, since BH60 Minigun is already easy to take down and you have the Oerlikons at base in case of spawntrap, the AA cars should be replaced with just few motorcycles, they can be useful for getting over the edges of the map at least and I don't think anything else would fit the map too well, its already so balanced.

    The combination of the earlier improvements and now the removal of the Apache made Zakhar from one of my least favorite maps to one of my current favorite BG maps.

    Well done!

  • d4rkturbo786d4rkturbo786 Posts: 10Member Beginner
    Here's a couple of suggestions for balancing out BG further. 

    There should be a 'no fly zone' when the game detects a team is being camped. Perhaps introduce a A-10 air support if a team gets camped for an extended period of time. 

    The Havoc at base 3 is what everyone mainly goes for during the start of the game. It would be good if another Havoc was added perhaps at base 4 or completely remove the Havoc and a 'black-hawk' added instead?

    Derb should have more helicopters, the black-hawk is just not enough, an additional Apache, Hind, or Black-hawk missle would be beneficial.

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